interview

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KP: What in your opinion would be the main features of the changes that have taken place in Kosovo since its independence in 2008?

JN: Some changes have taken place; not many, but those that have are important and positive. Generally, I can say that people feel more relaxed. In one way or another, we were all convinced that the end of the war in Kosovo in 1999 meant “the sought independence”. Nonetheless, there were continuous dilemmas, which were resolved for many people with the Declaration of Independence of Kosovo in 2008. For many years now, there has been the trauma of the ever-evasive freedom and independence. This trauma will probably still haunt some Kosovars for another period of time, maybe until Kosovo becomes part of the EU. But for the majority, this trauma is beginning to be healed or has already been healed. And, of course, the healing of this trauma marks the birth of other traumas linked to everyday life, to living conditions, to the challenges ahead for the new state.

There were “cosmetic” changes, such as, for example, an overwhelming trend of the placing of metallic signs with the inscription “Republic of Kosovo”. You could see these signs everywhere except in the places where they were supposed to be. One of these signs was also placed in front of the National Theatre of Kosovo. We mocked this Government gesture by saying to them: “Hey, this here is a theatre, it is not The Republic of Kosovo.” There has been a euphoria that still goes on when it comes to the creation of “national” institutions. In a time when there are no opera professionals in Kosovo, a gigantic National Opera and Ballet Theatre building is being constructed as we have this interview!

Still, amid the euphoria of freedom, I will allow myself to speculate a bit and say that Kosovars are now more ready for reconciliation and to make compromises on certain issues that could not have even been taken into consideration prior to independence, such as, for example, the issue of the return of Serbs who left Kosovo after the end of war in Kosovo.

Meanwhile, it seems that essential changes are not taking place. The urban and urbanistic chaos in Prishtina persists in the same rhythm. There have been mentions of the considerable increase of corruption. Moreover, it has become part of regular life. When a Kosovo politician was accused of corruption, a relative of mine told me: “So what? He is not a Serb and he won’t send this money to Serbia. He is stealing this money here and he will invest it here, in Kosovo!”

Last but not least, the “guilty” label has changed as well! Until recently, Serbs were the sole culprits responsible (for everything, even a slight drizzle), whereas now, culprits have acquired more faces: sometimes it is the Government; at other times it is the Europeans; and every once in a while, again, it is the Serbs who are guilty .

Nonetheless, Kosovo is a new state that is learning to become a state slowly and cautiously. It is like those spoiled children who make a mess everywhere but we still love them, for they are children and they are sweet.

KP: How have these changes been reflected in cultural politics? Or, better said: Is there a defined cultural political agenda in Kosovo?

JN: There have been no changes whatsoever. There was no cultural policy agenda before and there still isn’t any. For years now, the budget of the Ministry of Culture, Youth and Sports is between 9 and 12 million euros. This total is divided into three parts. The part for culture is then divided into other parts: for capital investments, building maintenance, restoration of historical houses and burnt churches after the war, and so on. The remaining part is then allocated to cultural institutions of “state interest” such as the National Theatre of Kosovo, the National Arts Gallery, the Kosovo Museum, etc. And in the end, a tiny bit is left for activities organised outside the “state institution”! There are adopted laws, which are being amended before they’re even implemented in practice. Practically, all the Ministry of Culture does is distribute these scarce funds. As for other aspects of cultural policy, the situation is simply catastrophic. A document entitled “Strategy for Development of Culture” that was drafted years ago has been forgotten in the meantime. The state has returned to its old practice of production of “bureaucracy” and unnecessary administration. The system has been centralised and the executive autonomy of the cultural institutions have been taken away.

Due to frequent changes of Ministers of Culture, due to political turbulences, corruption, nepotism, party conflicts and similar idiocies, which are abundant in the Balkans, the present situation is at the zero point and there are not even any discussions on cultural policies that might have long-term aims of development.

KP: With this bleak insight on the present-day situation, what is your estimation of Kosovo’s cultural policy in the coming years?

JN: Unfortunately, until now, none of the administrations that have governed post-war Kosovo have shown any respect for culture. The concept of culture has been reduced to “cultural heritage” because of political reasons. If I may use a metaphor from the world of trade, I would say that on the political market, the Ministry of Culture is the recipient of the small change that remains after huge multi-million euro transactions. And you know the fate of small change: you either take it as a token of respect, or you leave it with the salesperson since it is of no use to you. The state is in charge of all infrastructural elements: road and school construction, enforcement of law and order, energy, etc., whereas culture has never appeared in its agenda. Therefore, from the point we’re at now, my predictions aren’t bright at all! In fact, Kosovo lacks experts who would be able to create concepts for cultural policies, as well as professionals in different cultural spheres who would implement these policies. There is potential, especially among younger artists, but this potential needs to have some guidance and requires good management.

KP: Your cultural and artistic activities are numerous and versatile. Does this versatility come as your natural drive towards different undertakings or is it also the result of a necessity to act on different planes in order to revitalise the culture in Kosovo?

JN: Interestingly, just like you, my wife also thinks that I am working in many directions! And I don’t quite agree with this. I consider myself first and foremost a playwright. So, my primary job is writing plays. The greatest number of my other artistic activities are linked to Qendra Multimedia, a cultural NGO that I established some years ago, or with The National Theatre of Kosovo, where I have been working for the last three years. To be sincere, I don’t see myself as being on some sort of patriotic mission to contribute with my work to the revitalisation of the culture in Kosovo. I like doing things for people here in Prishtina, where I live, but I would do the same even if I lived elsewhere. So, there is no “patriotic” motivation behind my engagements. I do the job that I chose as an artist and that is all. And the fact that I am engaged on many “fronts” seems to have to do with the way I am, with the way I function as a person. Always in action! Besides, I have to admit that I am extraordinarily fond of the chaos in Pristina. It is a chaos that inspires you. There is no electricity on a regular basis, there is no water on a regular basis, there are constant traffic jams just like in Bangladesh, there is a lack of jobs but there are lots of cafés, there are endless curses, from the moment you open your eyes in the morning until you go to sleep at night… And isn’t all that marvelous for an artist?

KP: As artistic director of the National Theatre of Kosovo, you strive to make a contemporary repertoire and to also bring theatre professionals from abroad. How is your repertoire policy perceived by the audiences and political structures?

JN: The three years of work as artistic director at the National Theatre have been a very challenging period. When I took this position, I found the National Theatre in the middle of a big debate, which, in one way or anther, still goes on. The essential question in this debate has to do with the concept of “national theatre”. What is a national theatre?

In Kosovo, there are always more answers than questions. There are attitudes that sound as if they’re quoted out of sacred books. “A state that does not have a national theatre is not a state.” “The National Theatre is the core, the embryo of the state.” Besides these “technical” questions and answers, the debate revolves around the most vital issue: the content of the National Theatre programme. Which plays are worthy of the national theatre? Well, it is not difficult to find the answer. It is logical that a state in which it was forbidden until recently to evoke its glorious history, the patriots and heroes, will look back to evoke the denied history. At the peak of the euphoria of the new state, the future was not discussed that much. It seems as if we were seeking to pay a debt to the denied past and to those who contributed to the creation of the new state. The new identity, therefore, is being created with the abundant arsenal of the past. The past is a like a storeroom that supplies and equips that new identity. One of the main suppliers, of course, is the theatre. What is to be taken from that storeroom, and what not? In what kind of new “packaging” will the past be wrapped? This is the background on which the debate on theatre in Kosovo is being built. 

My approach was different: I tried to connect theatre with the future. I have created a solid and well-planned repertoire. Previously, the repertoire was created ad hoc; so it often happened that a new performance would not be announced on the agenda even a month prior to its entering production. Also, before, it was customary that two months or more would pass before there being any rerun of a certain show. Now, the performances are shown more regularly; thus there are 20–25 reruns a month. So I would say that a foundation has been established that provides for a regular functioning of the theatre. Apart from “technical” interventions, the entire concept of the repertoire has been reformed. No more Albanian plays of poor quality in the repertoire just because they are Albanian. The repertoire for a season now usually consists of six international and two Albanian authors.

The National Theatre is also open to international cooperation through seminars, workshops and conferences. Dozens of international set designers, costume designers, composers, directors and other theatre artists have worked on National Theatre productions and their input has brought great results. We are slowly beginning to tour international festivals. Apart from the region, we have been presented in Slovenia, Switzerland and Germany and soon we will go to Sweden and Colombia. During these three years, an annual national drama competition was established and we have launched publications of plays.

All this has had an impact on the audience. There has been a 150% growth in audience attendance. As for the audience perception of these changes, I think that it is a general appreciation for them that has stimulated this audience growth.

In the meantime, one part of the artistic community – especially playwrights and directors – is showing signs of some sort of phobia towards international cooperation. Allegedly, this openness has caused “market shrinkage”. And since the National Theatre is the main cultural institution in Kosovo, it is understood that this is the venue where the “swords clash”. Arguments against collaboration with international artists are often economic: how is it that Kosovo taxpayers’ money goes to foreign artists? My answer is always: and why is it OK for taxpayers’ money to go to the production of trash that no one wants to see?
I would like to be more direct: in Kosovo, there is a crisis with the Drama and Directing school. There are lots of good actors, but very few good directors.
Apart from that, bureaucracy, personal issues, corruption, a ridiculously low theatre budget, cliques and other interest groups only continue to exhaust the Kosovo theatre and hinder its development and reformation.

Still, I am proud of the reforms I’ve managed to achieve at the National Theatre of Kosovo.

KP: You are currently amid the political-cultural controversy that arose around the visit of the National Theatre of Kosovo to Belgrade. The visit was to happen in the frame of the Atelje 212 festival of regional theatre, but it didn’t. Why?

JN: The National Theatre of Kosovo received an invitation from Atelje 212 in Belgrade for the play Cifti Martin [The Martin Couple] by the Kosovo director Bekim Lumi. This is one of the most successful and well-produced theatre plays in recent years in Kosovo. I discussed this cooperation in Belgrade with the director of Atelje 212, Kokan Mladenović, as well as other forms of cooperation that would follow, despite political barriers. In order to avoid possible political complications, it was decided that none of the presented theatres at the festival would appear with the name of the country, but just the name of the city, e.g., National Theatre of Kosovo – Prishtina, National Theatre of Bosnia – Sarajevo, etc. This solution was acceptable for us also.

However, this invitation did not sound right to the Kosovo Minister of Culture and the people around him. The Ministry didn’t take an official stand on this, but they “instructed” the General Manager of the National Theatre to cancel the visit, which she used as an opportunity to demonstrate her patriotism. This launched a pro et contra debate, in which myself, some journalists and intellectuals were for the visit. Unfortunately, the major part of the artistic community was against it. The main counter argument was: we should not forget the old animosity. They continued to stubbornly oppose our persistence to go and kept reiterating arguments related to the dead rather than to the living, to the past rather than to the future. Fatherland was again at stake. No one really dealt with the existing facts. Our idea to present a theatre show in Belgrade suddenly became part of conspiracy theory.

Our argument was that there were other “fronts” that protected and promoted the statehood of Kosovo. And for that matter, the “Republic of Kosovo” would have been better promoted and protected on the stage of Atelje 212 in Belgrade than in any flyer or website of this festival.

In my opinion, this was a lost historic chance. A good opportunity was missed because of some patriotic asses who don’t want to see anything beyond the tips of their noses. No malice could affect Kosovo out of any regional cultural cooperation or such cultural visits. Theatre is here to repair the damage done by politics. It was supposed to be a regular visit of artists who communicate freely with other artists, as human to human. If a theatre from Belgrade can come and play in Prishtina (as has happened recently), why can’t a Prishtina theatre do the same in Belgrade? Kosovo has its government, military, Ministry of Internal Affairs, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, all the institutions which ought to promote and protect the statehood of Kosovo through their mandate. Why should this role be given to theatre? This has never been and will never be in its agenda. Theatre should be free. But theatre is free only in countries that are free. Where there’s freedom, there’s free theatre as well. Where there’s no freedom, theatre is given the duty to serve pseudo-causes, ideologies and promotion of ideas, which is not in accord with its nature and soul.

Theatre in ex-Yugoslavia has been and continues to be the playground where politics exercises its power whenever it wants. Hence theatre in Kosovo is also subject to political influence and ghosts of the past, which see theatre as a means for fostering and empowering nationalism. This is the sad part of the history of theatre in this country, which has never found the strength to contest nationalistic ideas or take upon itself the role of strong opposition to any bad governance.

That is why I believe it is important that our artists become aware of this and fight for giving theatre back its original role and power, taken from it by politics. If not, we will continue seeing people with luggage climbing on tractors and leaving the country…

The National Theatre of Kosovo will go to Belgrade; if not now, then in two or more years. Otherwise, the future of both countries will be grim and tragic; exactly the way it used to be in the past.

KP: You are part of several projects that have spread through the region of ex-Yugoslavia – “New Politics of Solidarity”, the joint publishing project between Prishtina and Belgrade (“From Prishtina, With Love” and “From Belgrade, With Love”), etc. What are your motivations and expectations from these projects?

JN: Our work resembles that of de-miners after the war. You can only imagine how much work needs to be done. With these projects, we’re trying to “remove the mines” that have been left in these countries by the wars in Bosnia, Croatia, Kosovo and Macedonia. This has nothing to do with Yugo-nostalgia, as regional cooperation is often labelled. In the short and long run, these projects strive for the democratisation of our countries, for establishing regular communication bridges, for reconciliation, examination of our common history, the examination and denouncing of the suffering that people went through, etc., with a great aim in mind: to improve the future, to make it better than the past. With Borka Pavicevic and her CZKD centre in Belgrade, as well as with the “Grad” centre in Tuzla, we have started an ambitious project called “New Politics of Solidarity”, which aims to identify what can be identified as common values of equality and solidarity that go beyond nationalistic ideologies which, unfortunately, have remained quite dominant in these parts of the Balkans.

I think this is a good opportunity to speak about the super-ambitious project that we have just completed, that of the publication in Albanian and Serbian of literary anthologies, which have been published in Belgrade and in Prishtina.

The title of the Prishtina publication of new Serbian prose is entitled “Nga Beogradi, me dashuri” [From Belgrade, With Love], whereas the Belgrade anthology of new Kosovo literature is entitled “Iz Prištine s ljubavlju” [From Prishtina, With Love]. The Belgrade anthology was published by TonB and the cultural supplement “Beton”, while, in Prishtina, the anthology was published by MM within the edition called “Marimanga”. Besides offering their readers high-quality literature, both anthologies mark an important moment in the cultural history of Kosovo and Serbia. Literary translations from Albanian to Serbian and vice versa have been very scarce in the past twenty years. These anthologies are a serious effort of mutual introduction of literary scenes, a serious effort of conveying messages of understanding beyond the never-ending prejudices, hatred, pain, sufferings and political barriers caused by war.

The idea for the titles of these two books was born around midnight at a party. Many humoristic titles were mentioned, such as “Bambi”, “Boro and Ramiz”, “Zastava”, then Kalashnikovs were mentioned, jokes about the “fraternity and unity” slogan and many other things... I don’t remember who eventually came up with the idea for the titles: “From Belgrade, With Love” and “From Prishtina, With Love”. We wanted something that would sound very natural, but at the same time would be deeply cynical. For is there anything more natural than love? On the other hand, is there anything more cynical – at least from the viewpoint of official politics – than claiming that something is dedicated to Kosovo “from Belgrade, with love”? And is there anything more cynical than saying that something is going to Serbia “from Prishtina, with love”? Even if it is only a literary book!

In the relation between Kosovo and Serbia, the only missing link is love! What has also been missing so far has been literary exchange, which was, like many other things, a taboo. Now, after all these years, when it seems that people have begun to forget their habit of burning books or throwing them into the garbage – it happened on both sides – we have summoned the courage to start the exchange of books with each other, with the hope that people will read them. At least before throwing them in the garbage. Literature is the human side of a state. Writers are like wild animal tamers. At times they’re caressing, at times cracking their whip. They tame the “animal” in order for it not to bite or knock down anyone anymore.

KP: Another important line of your work is reconciliation projects. I know of two: the project with Serbs and Albanians and the project with Michael Lessac. How do you view the reconciliation process in Kosovo and what factors are essential to be taken into consideration both by local authorities as well as the world community?

JN: In the beginning, as a young artist, I was repelled by theatrical projects that had some political or social reflection or that were in any way linked to “extra-theatrical” ideas, such as reconciliation, raising awareness, etc.  In other words, I believed that theatre should exist only within itself. I write what I want to write, and not what is important for some people somewhere. But with time, when I started to experience theatre more practically, I understood that I could write plays that I wanted to write but sometimes it was also important to write plays that addressed a specific audience.

I was engaged for two years in a project, which was very important for me as a human being and as an artist. In 2005 and 2006, we realised a theatrical project called “Voices” that involved Albanian and Serbian artists. The subject of the project was the missing people from the war in Kosovo, both Albanians and Serbs. We employed Forum Theatre as a methodology, modifying it slightly to fit the Kosovo circumstances. The audience of these plays was not ordinary: it consisted of families of the missing. We made two separate productions for Albanian and Serbian audiences, but the problems were almost the same on both sides. You have to understand the cultural context of these people: we were dealing with families that refused to undergo DNA testing that would help in the identification of the missing because they didn’t trust it; women who were living stigmatised and isolated from the world by the families of their missing husbands; young girls who refused to re-marry without knowing what happened to their beloved family members who were missing; families that were paying tens of thousands of euros to get information about the fate of their missing loved ones; families that were refusing to bury the bodies of their loved ones because they had decided to continue living with “hope”. But in the end, it was really fascinating to witness what power theatre had.

Recently, we have started a new big project with the American theatre director Michael Lessac. We are making a theatre play that, I believe, will thoroughly explore the dilemmas of reconciliation. We will dig a bit deeper into the history, exploring the relationship between Serbs and Albanians, in order to have a clearer perspective of the current situation. But it is important to mention that this Serbian-Albanian “history” will be given from the perspective of a Roma family. I should not give more details at this point as this is going to be a long research work with the actors and the outcome is yet to be shaped.

Reconciliation between Serbs and Albanians will happen simply because, otherwise, it won’t work. I think it is the duty of every one of us to contribute to this process. Serbs and Albanians don’t trust each other anymore. This is evident. I don’t know if there ever was a moment in history when they trusted each other, but this is not important. What is important is that now we are at point zero.

Culture in general, and theatre in particular, is a good – if not the best – mechanism to start the process of establishing trust, and only then we can start talking about reconciliation. Exchanges and cooperation induce elimination of stereotypes and prejudices that exist between two parties. Until now, we wanted to see only wickedness and weakness in each other. Now it is time to discover and recognize the good sides as well. And I think the good parts are outnumbering the bad sides. I realise that I might sound like a priest or a “peace missionary” and we’ve had plenty of them in this region in the recent years. Nevertheless, this is how I understand and feel about the issue.

KP: How would you qualify the presence of foreign cultural foundations in Kosovo and the effects they have had on the cultural scene?

JN: Foreign cultural foundations have been the ones that rebuilding Kosovo’s cultural scene since the end of the war. Their role is extraordinary and the impact they have had on institutions and a few independent cultural initiatives is essential. Of course, there are paranoid individuals who have a tendency to doubt the support of foreign foundations (as those with subversive aims wanting to destroy our culture, which is the best in the whole world) but their voices are in the minority. The major beneficiaries of international support for culture have been young artists, who have in turn set the foundations of Kosovo alternative culture, which is today the strongest connecting bridge with European culture. These artists have given shape to “alternative culture”, which functions outside the domain of the traditional Kosovo culture operating only within the local domain. Beneficiary artists and institutions have brought the spirit of a different culture more open towards new forms of artistic expression as well as towards the perception of the “other” culture (which, in the Balkans, is usually perceived with contempt).  

I think it is a good moment to mention here some of the foundations which have financed cultural activities in Kosovo, such as: The Olof Palme International Center, European Cultural Foundation, SOROS Foundation – Office in Prishtina, Goethe Institute, Swedish Institute, European Commission Liaison Office (Prishtina), Swiss Cultural Programme, Traduki, KulturKontakt, CHWB, etc. Of course, there are many others as well.

Some of these foundations are still active in supporting cultural activities linked to social and political aspects. Other foundations have a tendency towards what could be interpreted as an effort for establishing cultural imperialism. However, the work of these cultural and non-cultural foundations that have been active in Kosovo should be seen in a very positive light. I really cannot imagine Kosovo without this foreign support. The cultural and political gaps would be insurmountable!

KP: What would be your recommendations to foreign cultural foundations?

JN: Unfortunately, today in Europe, there are very few foundations that support culture in a broader geographic line. I say there are few, although there is the European Cultural Foundation (ECF). ECF is in any case the only foundation that is based exclusively on culture. Other foundations present in Kosovo serve only as “links” to other aspects, such as democracy, human rights, peace and reconciliation, etc. Culture’s potential and role, unfortunately, is being ignored everywhere in Europe. And even more so in Kosovo. That is why my recommendation to foreign foundations (even to non-cultural ones) is to continue supporting cultural initiatives in Kosovo. This support should have a special focus on regional initiatives for cultural cooperation because such cooperation could be the strongest weapon in overcoming nationalism, which is still growing, and it could overcome xenophobia and the stereotyping of neighbours – a very common practice around here.

KP: If you were to wake up tomorrow as a state official with the power of decision (perhaps the Minister of Culture of Kosovo or another function – you choose!), what would be the measures you would undertake? 

JN: First, I would hope that it was a bad dream. And if it would prove to be reality, then I would really be in big trouble. But here is what I would hastily undertake:

– De-politicise cultural institutions;
– Establish a fund for supporting independent cultural institutions;
– Establish a special fund for translation of literature and professional books from different fields of art;
– Establish training laboratories for artists and culture managers;
– Establish the Contemporary Art Gallery of Kosovo;
– Provide scholarships for studies abroad in Cultural Management;
– Establish CLG (Culture Lobbying Group) within the Kosovo Parliament with the main aim of increasing the annual cultural budget;

And so on. The list would probably be even longer. But I don’t think I would be long in that position because of my rebellious nature. I would probably be kicked out because of some scandal in the Parliament: for instance, because of declaring that the performance The Martin Couple by the National Theatre of Kosovo should by all means go to Belgrade.

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